Dream_Pits
#0

He is  so full of it! i heard another one of his interviews and he is a liar and a complete moron!

IN SEVENS YEARS OF BREADING THIS IS WHAT HE DID....
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To this in only 7 yrs...






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bill wright
#8
the amstaff isn't a pit bull,bred for totally different reasons and became two totally different dogs.and to continue to call a razors edge doga pit bull after learning that they are ambully's even after the creator of the line says t hey are not pit bulls,,well that's just moronic
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david parish
#9
well i will say this about the
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Blaze_N_Pits
#10
Kinda interested in the link to where you found this article...? If you could post that, that would be awesome because if their is anymore info. I'd like to read it.
On this topic I'd have to say that if their is any Bulldog involed... then RE would be a mixed line. But if it's just UKC APBT / AKC Amstaff... then I wouldn't really see a problem because UKC will still register an AKC Amstaff as a UKC APBT.... basically like mixing a game bred APBT to a show Amstaff or APBT.
We understand that an AKC Amstaff was bred for show and to look a lil' larger and more flashy. The UKC APBT was bred to be a tough working game bred, slender built dog. So if you mix the two together, it is still a pure bred APBT (still leading to the same ancestors)... but isn't a pure show dog or a pure game dog. Now adding Bulldog in the mix.. is another story.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by: bill wright
it has been proven Come see our gentle 'bullies,' unfairly savaged by a currish editorial October 6, 2006 12:50 am AS PRESIDENT of Razors Edge and one of the founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate. The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull." We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it. Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now. PROOF ENOUGH FOR YA?
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Blaze_N_Pits
#12
Hmmm interesting.
 
From what I get from it most of the RE line was produced by breeding a bunch of AKC Amstaffs to a few UKC APBTs.
 
But since Amstaffs and APBTs have the same ancestors, I consider them technically the same breed. I also have this opinion because UKC will accept an AKC Amstaff into their registry as an APBT.
 
One thing Dave Wilson did admit to is that other breeders have taken his dogs and mixed them with English Bulldogs.... those are def. mixes, but it is not his fault that other people have done this with his dogs. Which I would say would make it hard to distiguish the difference of a true RE to a mixed RE... because those mixed breeders were probably smart enough to flip up the pedigree to make it seem pure bred.
 
Now if you are a person that considers Amstaffs and APBTs different breeds then you clearly have a different opinion about this topic.... but I don't see why anyone would think they are different when the UKC will still accept the AKC, both have the same ancestors... the only difference is that the AKC is more show and the UKC is supposed to be more game, or a working breed.
 
Just wanted to read the article and get a feel for it all. I personally wouldn't own a bully just because I love the more slender look of a game bred, and the stockiest we would ever go would be a show bred APBT (like Nevada).... but that doesn't mean that I'm going to diss on other people who do love bullys... that just separates everyone that should be coming together and fighting BSL as a whole. That and I also like to be able to have a discussion that breeders can disagree on and still get along.
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bill wright
#13
well ukc would be good,but the judges started awarding and placing these mutts like gottiline and all the mixes.the amstaff is a different breed than the apbt.sure,they started out as the same breed,but when the dogs that were bred for show only,it changed the look and everything with the dog,yet the apbt kept to the standard.when the amstaffs were bred for looks instead of working,they became a different breed,there are great differences between the two.as for dave wilson , not mixing other dogs himself,thats bs,he did mix in other breed's,that how he made the change so quick, look at the dogs on his page http://www.razorsedgeinc.com/info.html
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bill wright
#14
my question is,why,after the creator of that line,came out and stated that razors edge dogs are not pit bulls,do the razors edge freaks still calling their dogs pit bulls,when clearly they are not.do they think that the creator of the line is wrong or are they just too damned ashamed to admit that they spent so much money on a mutt? and its always the same old thing that i hear when they are told so,,well he is a pit bull because he is registered with so and so as a pit bull.well guess what,,its not that hard to hang a ped. which dave wilson did do with those dogs.he started out with a couple pit bulls,some back yard bred dogs,mixed them with amstaff and so on.thats why you have mutts like razors edge line,gotti line,greyline and blue line, registered as pit bulls,some idiot hung papers
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bill wright
#15
yes but my mind has been made up by facts and not fantasy
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Blaze_N_Pits
#16
Well, our boy Rocko has a 'PR' bred full blown pedigree (well past 7 generations). Not trying to argue but he has no bully bloodlines (RE, Gotti, Greyline, etc) and when you follow his pedigree back it still leads to some AKC/UKC dogs (Ruffian, Galant, Lylane, Tryarr, etc.) then leads back to just UKC dogs.
 
A lot of pedigrees do this whether bully or show... the only way to not have this is to have a pure bred game dog like Colby, OFRN, Carver, Boudreaux, etc.
 
I'm def. gonna call him a pure bred APBT because their is no question about it, although farther in his ped. he does have AKC and UKC. I consider them equal even though they've been separate for so long and one's bred for show the other for working.... they still originated from the same ancestors and neither Amstaffs or APBTs have been mixed with any other breeds to make them different from each other. Basically the AKC used a lot of selective breeding to acheive a show dog.... UKC did selective breeding to produce a game/working dog.... even if you breed the two together, they are still of the same lineage.
 
As for lying on pedigrees that's always unacceptable and their is really no way to proove it.... I would just like someone to actually be able to find proof... such as literally pointing out the flaw in a pedigree backed up by prooven records or other forms of proof, etc.
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Blaze_N_Pits
#17
"We wanted to produce heavier built dogs with heavy bone structure. More of the Bullier look. The breed was created by a cross of Terrier and Bulldog, and we wanted more of the Bully structure. (NOT re-introduce Bulldogs, but breed to pull heavier traits from within the existing breed. Mix breeding was NEVER an idea or option! You can breed for traits already prevalent to pull desired genes. Contrary to rumors, only Pits and Staffs which came from the same original American Pit Bull Terrier were used in the creation Razors Edge, NEVER another breed.)" Quote off of RE site.
 
Dave Wilson never admits to mix-breeding... whether that's the truth or not, IDK but he never admitted it. What he does admit to is using AKC, UKC, and ADBA.
 
If you're a person who believes that the AKC and UKC are different breeds then wouldn't the ADBA be a whole different breed too? Just because they call one an Amstaff and the other two call them APBTs... they all still were bred for different traits. But they all came from the same lineage and have the same ancestors..... I'm just confused on why anyone would think they are not of the same breed just because they have diff. characteristics ... isn't that what bloodlines are anyways?
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balhedboy
#18
this might b a crazy question, but didnt it all start with a wolf and e'ry one started breeding them to serve different purposes?  i mean i'm pretty sure some old #$@! 'cavemen' were arguing about which of their dogs were better, when they were bred, born, and raised for different purposes.  what i have a problem with is actually lying about the breedings themselves.  i mean they put a poodle and a labrador together for specific purposes and came up with a dog thats now worth $2,000.  when i was a kid, those same dogs would have been given away!  we have some of the best breeds of dogs regaurdless if they're amstaff, apbt, amer. bully, pocket bullies, blues, reds..........as long as you keep the paperwork official, then ppl are still have the oppurtunity to purchase exactly what they want. ppl have to understand that everything has to start somewhere and in time things change to better suit ppls purposes, otherwise we would all still be at dog shows w/ big grey furry moon howlers that would love to eat our kids, if given the oppurtunity!  as a wise man once said, "DON'T HATE APPRECIATE!"  your only killing the value of some of the best f**king dogs in the world.  If you truly love the "PIT" drop it, the dogs are doing what they're supposed to, now we're keeping them down. 
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Blaze_N_Pits
#19
Plenty of APBTs have both APBT and AST bloodlines.
ASTs and APBTs lead back to the same ancestors.
An AKC AST is still able to be registered as an APBT through the UKC.
 
Technically they can not yet be considered different breeds because
1.) Neither the AST nor the APBT have been bred to any other breed
2.) They haven't been separated long enough as of yet
 
It's like saying that a pure Jeep dog is a different breed from the APBT just because that bloodline has been kept separate. The AST uses diffferent bloodlines and the APBT uses different bloodlines... for the most part have been kept separate to keep lines pure... but that still doesn't make them different breeds. Yes, they may have different traits, looks, and personalities.... but really every bloodline is different and has their own unique qualities.
I do understand that it is easier to say they are different just to keep the APBT up to the original standard... they all originate from the same ancestors. According to 'breed' as a definition... they are considered the same. I can't quite remember how long they must be separate for to be considered their own breeds, but I think it was something like 100 yrs or more... not too sure on that though.
 
And to say that a dog with both bloodlines (AST and APBT) looks different from the original APBT standard and has none of the same qualities as the original APBT... I have to beg to differ... our boy Rocko has mainly AST show lines on his dams side and some APBT lines on his sires side.... but he looks just like an original APBT. He can climb trees, hop 6ft tall fences, runs all day everyday, and will play on his springpole until he passes out if you let him. He keeps himself in tip top shape and is super energetic... none of these are supposed to be AST traits... but traits of a true APBT.
 
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Blaze_N_Pits
#20
This is the male I'm talking about... Nevada, Castillo, Gutierrez, York, Vang, etc. bloodlines. Mainly AST show lines, but still has the original APBT qualities/traits.
 
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Blaze_N_Pits
#21
Thanx. Just think he's an interesting dog with show lines.. should be bigger according to the stereotype.
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YeLa Kennels
#22
In case yall didn't know the first nine dogs posted after the equal sign are all gottiline dogs not edge dogs, but this post is suppose to be bashing razorsedge and proving he mixed dogs which im sure he did but if you gone post something up like you know your #$@! please know your #$@!. That's all I have to say SMH!!!!
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